Skip to content
Transcript

Professor David Peimer
Portrayals of Golda Meir in Film

Saturday 13.07.2024

Professor David Peimer - Portrayals of Golda Meir in Film

- So today we’re going to dive straight in with who for me is one of the most remarkable and unique individuals in Jewish history and frankly, 20th century history. The great Golda Meir. From so many different perspectives, what her life encompassed, what she achieved, you know, the enormous span of achievements, of ambition, of humility, of reality, of hubris, of mistakes, you know, just an incredible life, which in a way I think almost reflects something of the whole, part of the whole Jewish experience of the 20th century. Especially the last three quarters of it really, or up to ‘78. So these are three pictures here, obviously you can see the very young Golda and then the young woman, very young woman, Golda. And then the image that I think most of us know, you know, the mature Golda Meir during her time as Prime Minister and other things here. The other image there. The mere fact that I’m going to use the word Golda so much, I think also says a lot. Because how many politicians, leaders, statesmen, or women do we actually end up calling by their first name? And she’s known as Golda, not only I think in Israel or by most people, but globally, Jewish people and others. And I think there’s something very powerful just in that tiny, I don’t want to nitpick and, you know, make the whole big issue out of one little name, but the fact we called her Golda, the others we call by surnames and other things, says something about a kind of a connection that she was able to generate, obviously amongst Israelis and then broader amongst Jewish people and globally. You know, the huge, the enormous, the great leaders of her time and for part of our times.

So there’s the archetype of the maternal, the archetype of the mother, the grandmother, you know, the nurturing, protective, and yet tough as steel image of that kind of archetype in her as well as an image of the leader, which all goes into it. And in the films I’m going to show, in particular the Helen Mirren interpretation, I think that she, you can see that coming out. I’m going to look a little bit at, briefly at her life. Just so we remind ourselves of some of the main things that she achieved and some of the highlights, the main moments of her life. And then, primarily I decided to look at the Helen Mirren interpretation of the recent film a couple of years ago, Golda. Because I think Helen Mirren, not only is she a brilliant actress, but I think it’s quite a remarkable and unique portrayal of the character. And I think it speaks to us so much more than other portrayals, which are good, but don’t reach the level that I believe Helen Mirren does. So I’d rather focus on the brilliant portrayal, go into a bit more detail than sort of just skim over a couple of them. We’ll look very briefly at sort of Gideon as well. Anybody who hasn’t had a chance to see it yet, the Helen Mirren version, I think it’s really a superb piece of acting and writing, and a sense of history with the character. Okay so Golda Meir, as we all know, this is an historical icon. And what also fascinates me is how history and art, history and film, or literature, or theatre, how they have a creative collision, how they speak to each other. Obviously a play is two hours long, an hour and a half, film, 90 minutes, give or take.

So it’s obviously that one only shows a very selective interpretation, a selective version of a much more complex, nuanced real life. And history gives us a sense of facts and an interpretation, understanding of subtle nuance, context, and facts. And it’s that what I call creative collision between the two. How the arts can try and take something from history represented to give us greater insight into human nature, into the pressures of experience of the society during these remarkable times of historical change. You know, we look at Shakespeare, Caesar, we can go, there’s so many plays and theatre and literature which take this kind of approach. And by definition, it has to be a poetic and limited crystallised interpretation. Working with the icon, the history, and working with, trying to work with something of the inner psychology of character. What we call inner psychology of character in a play, in a novel, in a book, or a film of course. So we try to capture, they’re always trying to capture something of that reality as opposed to, it’s never trying to reflect you know, the full sense of the person over their life or historical period. But obviously, you know, there’s the element of choice and selection, and interpretation. So Golda Meir is prime minister in 1969 to 1974.

Probably most known in that period, and of course the Yom Kippur War in '73, which I’m going to come into, which the film focuses on primarily. So she’s prime Minister from '69 to '74, which is, you know the, the primary period I guess. But there’s a remarkable life that goes before. Born to Ukrainian Jewish family from Kiev, and they immigrated to the US in 1906, where they go eventually to Milwaukee and she works as a teacher briefly, this and that happens. Anyway, eventually she immigrates as a young person with her husband to the then Palestine, as we all know. She’s a signatory of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, as we know. And in 1956, Ben-Gurion makes her foreign minister. 1969, following the death of Levi Eshkol, the Prime Minister obviously, she becomes Prime Minister '69 to '74. And then of course, the Yom Kippur War, which caught Israel off guard, to put it mildly. Tragic occurrence. Many reasons possible for that. We’re going to what the film shows specifically. And it leads to of course, Golda becoming the blamed primarily together with others and in the inquiry. She then resigns in '74 and is because of, she takes the blame, accepts it, and she’s part of setting up the commission. You know, there’s a moral integrity that’s going on inside her. And she of course is succeeded by Rabin. In Israel, Golda I think is lionised as one of the founders of the state. Almost seen as like the Iron Lady of Israeli politics. But she’s also blamed for the '73 tragic war, the Yom Kippur War. So there’s so many aspects that encompass this remarkable life.

And of course, she’s a woman achieving all this. And let’s go back to all those years ago, how many others, you know, how many other women did it and were desired to by their people. Her earliest memories, I think it’s important it showed in the film as well, is of her father boarding up the house in Kiev because there’s a pogrom about to happen. And as a little girl cowering and hiding away with her father and mother, the family, and they’re sort of cowering and hiding, and the pogrom is happening around. And it’s mentioned in the film, I’m going to show the clip. And I think that’s such an important moment she talks about as a first memory in the film. And it’s that sense of the cowering, scared, victim, terrified little Jewish character. You know, you can imagine in the pogroms, in Kiev, in Ukraine, in these times that she’s speaking of. And never again will she let that happen in her own life and never again for Jewish people. And I think that’s such a driving theme in the film. And I would suggest in her own life as well. 1905, her father moves to Milwaukee. He worked on the railway, on the yard in the railways, saved money and eventually was able to bring the family to America. Golda, the mother, and the sister, her sister. Her mother ran a grocery store in Milwaukee. And from a young age, Golda was involved in Zionist activism. She was a member of Habonim, which was a movement that I was part of as a teenager growing up into my early, well my teenage years back in Durban in South Africa. Which as we know is a labour Zionist youth movement.

And it was one of the most formative times of my life. I tried to imagine back into her period and what she might have gained or gleaned from it. And it’s a combination, I think, of the secular and the nationalism, and the history and the culture of Judaism, of Jewish people, but perhaps most importantly that absolute central sense of a Jewish identity, and what Jewish identity would mean to Golda. And I think Habonim would feed into that for her. Her precondition for marrying her husband was that they would settle in the then Palestine. Which indeed they did in 1921. 1928, 1938, sorry, 1938, Golda is the Jewish, one of the Jewish observers sent from Palestine to the Evian Conference, which was called by Roosevelt, as we all know, to discuss the plight of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution. There were delegates from 32 countries at the Evian Conference, 1938. And they all expressed sorrow. And you know, all the, you can imagine the placating and platitudinous words that we can imagine. But only one country actually accepts to really take refugees. And it’s the Dominican Republic. And they say they will take 100,000. 1947, after the war, of course, two years after the war, she went to help Jewish people who were interned by the British after the Second World War in the internment camps in Cyprus. And she goes there to help them obviously to try and get them out of the British internment camps to Palestine, to the Israel. Before the '47 war, before the war, the '47-'48 war, she met with King Abdullah of Jordan. Interestingly, because he was the only Arab leader who was willing to make an ally of a future Jewish state as opposed to, because primarily, from what I understand, he was opposed to the Mufti of Jerusalem and other reasons that he had.

More linked to the British and other things as well. And of course, you can’t ignore the role that oil is playing in all these geopolitics and the role of the empire. She played a crucial role, and this is really important. And not to be underestimated I think for a second. She also went and she played a crucial role in fundraising, Ben-Gurion and others, centre to America and elsewhere, to Britain, to Europe, elsewhere to fundraise. And in 1948, she’s working through the Jewish agencies. She raised over $30 million. Obviously in those times it’s a huge amount. Just as an interesting contrast, the Arab Hire Committee, which was to raise money against the establishment of the Jewish state and other reasons, its annual budget was two and a quarter million dollars. She, which was similar to the annual budget for the Haganah at this point. She raises over 30 million in 1948. She also travelled to Aman in secret disguised as an Arab woman and to meet Abdullah. And the King Abdullah of Jordan proposes that Palestine be absorbed into Jordan. Of course, Golda on behalf of the Israeli government to be rejected. 1948, she’s one of the signatories as I mentioned, of the Israeli Declaration of Independence. She wrote in her autobiography, I’m quoting, “After I signed, I cried. When I had studied American history as a schoolgirl, I read about those who signed the US Declaration of Independence. Couldn’t imagine that these were real people.”

Fascinating interpretation. You know, she’s trying to think back to when she learnt it as a school kid, that these are actually real people who signed the US Declaration, the American Declaration of Independence. And here she is, together with other ordinary, well not so ordinary, but real people, flesh and blood, like us, signing the Israeli Declaration of Independence. She’s making a link to the human connection always. She’s trying, I think, to find the human connection. The human reality in the people she’s dealing with. Not just their public political persona, not just the image presented that we might receive, you know, in the nightly news or wherever. She goes deeper immediately to the person inside the persona presented. And that’s I think also what the film tries to really capture. Especially in the scenes between her and Liev Schreiber, who plays Kissinger, does a superb performance as well. She did a second fundraising tour and raised $50 million. In total, she raised 90 million. Which was a third of the cost of the war in '48. She’s responsible for leading the raising of a third of the cost of that war. Without what she did, who knows what would’ve happened in that '48 war. Okay if we go on to the next slide, please. So this is her, Golda arriving in Moscow in 1948. As we know, after the war, Stalin actually is one of the first to support the establishment of the Jewish state. And of course there’s a whole lot of reasons for that, which we’ll go into now.

It’s estimated 50,000 Russian Jews thronged to try and see her or meet her or in some way, you know, come out of their shells to actually see the reality of the Jewish leader of the new state. 50,000 Russian Jews, which of course scares Stalin a little bit later, which is a separate story historically. Okay, go to the next slide please. This is her in '62, meeting of course Kennedy. She’s foreign, she’s the foreign secretary already. And you know here, just to show meeting Kennedy. Go on to the next slide, please. Here we see her meeting Nixon and Kissinger of course. Remarkable. If we can just imagine this little child cowering, terrified the pogroms in Kiev, you know, in the Ukraine, the pogroms and the father trying to huddle and help the family, protect them really. Then they’re in Milwaukee, then she’s a teenager, then she, look at this remarkable life of this amazing woman. You know, and I want to stress it’s a woman achieving all of this. You know, and what it says about the Jewish people, that they chose, that she’s the one to lead. Meeting all these people, and I want to suggest trying to connect again to per person, not just the public persona or the political image, but the person inside. Understanding that connection between the two. Not just a cliche of the personals, political, politicals, personal, but look really and connect on that level, which the movie with Helen Mirren does I think superbly. After this, she wrote about the Russian Jews and they’re all chanting in Russian. “Our Golda, our Golda.” Again, it’s the first name, it’s Golda. It’s not the surname used, which is so often with political leaders. It’s Golda. She transcends it somehow for me, she becomes a real stateswoman of her times. And I think it has only increased in impact and importance as the decades have rolled on. She wrote, after the meeting of the Russian Jews in 1948, she said, “I felt as though I’d been caught up in a torrent of love.

So, so strong.” Look at that way she writes about it in autobiography. “I had felt to have been caught up in a torrent of love. So, so strong.” Let’s never forget Einstein’s great phrase about Fritz Harber. Who aside from the detail, the great chemist. And Einstein said that he had been trapped in the tragedy of the German Jew. Which was the tragedy of unrequited love. Harber had thought by assimilation that Germany would love him, embrace him. He’d reached the pinnacle Nobel Prize for chemistry, fertiliser, chemical, gas warfare, first world war, trying to help the Germans win the war. All of these things. He was head of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute. He employed Einstein, gave him a job, reached the pinnacle, they make him captain in the army. And then of course, as soon as the Nazis get in, '33, Harber’s kicked out and he’s got to fire all the Jewish people as well, which he refuses. And he realises the tragedy of his life was had he, he thought that he would be loved by the German people. And Einstein wrote and he said, “The tragedy of Harber, was the tragedy of the German Jew, which was the tragedy of unrequited love.” And here, you know, here we have Golda. “I felt I was caught up in a torrent of love. So strong.” The desperate need or the desire to belong, to love and be loved, we can’t underestimate I think. And I know the word love is so bandied around so often, but there’s something very powerful that she connects with that word. You know, again she’s linking the persona, the person and the persona. Ben-Gurion then offered her a job as deputy prime minister. She refuses. She said, “Well what does that mean to be a deputy? I mean, what does it really mean?” You know. She takes on the role of labour minister from '49 to 1956. She helps introduce welfare state policies, the integration of the immigrants from Europe.

She initiates major housing projects, road construction projects, and many others as the Minister of Labour in Ben-Gurion’s government. She also helps to establish social security. She works on maternity benefits, accident insurance, benefits for widows, and orphans, and even the costs of Jewish burials. I mean, I just want to give a tiny little sense of some of the extraordinary things that she achieves. On the one hand as a day-to-day minister, and then in the broad span of the history of the Jewish people and of her own life. She’s a foreign minister from 1956 to 1966, as I mentioned. And of course 1956 is the Suez Crisis. Israel, Britain, France invade Egypt to regain western control of the Suez Canal, and to remove Nasser as president of Egypt. America, the Soviet Union forced those three to withdraw. I’m not going into the historical details of why and how. But she is the foreign minister during this period. She also then promoted ties with new African states, newly independent. And she wrote that Israel could be a model for the new African States at the time, she wrote. And I’m quoting, “Like these states, we had also shaken off foreign rule. Like them, we had to learn for ourselves and how to defend ourselves.” She gets it completely and she’s in touch, which is what’s happening in a totally different continent in Africa, also. 1965, the 67-year-old Golda was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer. And as I said, Levi Eshkol died in '69 and at the age of 71, she became Prime Minister of Israel, '69 to '74. The Munich Olympics were in '72 a year before the Yom Kippur War. She’s outraged at the lack of global action, not just words, after what happened with the Munich Olympic massacre. And she orders the Mossad, as we all know, to go and hunt down and assassinate the leaders of the Black September group that did the massacre.

During the '70s, she’s also part of bringing in 200,000 Soviet Jews to Israel. Yom Kippur War, in essence she’s blamed for it. And as we all know, she was told the Syrian forces are massing on the Golan Heights. She’s alarmed but her advisors, especially Dayan as we see in the film, advise her not to call up, not to worry, not to call up the Israeli forces, not to mobilise. And in the film, I don’t think it’s hubris, I don’t think it’s in arrogance. I think it’s just not sure what to do. And Dayan is blamed in the film and he did apparently have something of a nervous breakdown afterwards in reality because he was the one to say, to lead the group saying, “We don’t need to call up all the troops.” You know, and he’s the one to freak out. But he is not the cause, the cause of something separate shown in the film as well. Six hours before the outbreak of war she meets with Dayan and also General David Elazar. Dayan argued that war is unlikely. And Elazar, he advocates full military mobilisation and to launch preemptive strikes on the Syrian forces October the sixth. Isn’t it terrifying that October seems to be the month that so many terrible things happen? The history of Jewish people in Israel. Golda finally, she approves the full-scale mobilising, but she rejected the preemptive strike. And that’s huge. Because she was concerned that Israel would be seen as starting a war, which might hurt Israel’s access to crucial military support, especially from America. Kissinger later confirmed that she was right, that if Israel had launched a preemptive strike that Israel might well not have received American military backing and other backing as well. Then in 1974, she resigned after the Agranat Commission, which cleared her of direct responsibility. That’s the quote.

And Rabin takes over and succeeds her in 1974. She publishes her autobiography in '75, Becomes a New York Times bestseller. And let’s never forget, 1977, she spoke at the Knesset with Sadat’s visit, historic visit to the Knesset. And then 1978 she died of lymphatic cancer, the age of 80. She said about Jewish identity, and I want to give this whole quote because I think it’s so important. “Being Jewish to me means being proud to be part of a people that has maintained its distinct identity for more than 2,000 years with all the pain and torment that has been inflicted upon it. Identity and religion are different. I believe in the Jewish people, the Jewish people believe in God.” With that wit, that ironic turn of phrase. She puts it so brilliantly. You can’t help be endeared, feel a kind of love, affection for her. “I believe in the Jewish people, the Jewish people believe in God.” It’s almost Woody Allen, you know. It’s so brilliant, that connection, but speaks through the wit and the humanity and the humility. She brings us in, you know, to feel so strongly for her as Golda. And what it means for her, the 2,000 years, always linking it to the history, the pain and torment that has been inflicted on the Jews. She gets it with an economy of language, I think so powerfully. It’s such a deep nationalism and Zionism within her secular sense of a cultural identity. Okay, if we go on to the next slide, please. This is from a speech that she gave. I’m going to show a whole lot of clips now from the movie. This is not from the movie, this is from a speech she gave to young people. The real gold.

  • Why good things that I said about me. I had probably more occasions in my life to hear bad words said about me. They don’t move me exactly in the same way. But at any rate, Esther, who are the young people that have carried on your shoulders the burden of war, and you will have to do it in the future. Therefore, you must make one real basic decision. If you think that you are fighting, giving your lives, as you saw many of your closest friends give their lives only for the defence of Israel, for the 3 million Jews that are in Israel. I’m telling you, and it may shock you, it’s not worthwhile. The 6 million Jews that went to their death chambers during the war were not worse than we are. We’re not one iota better than they were. But because I’m convinced that the very existence, the future of the Jewish people depends upon Israel being free and safe or not. That’s the decision you young people have to take. And if you take that decision, from that stems everything else. And since I’ve taken that decision a long, long time ago, I haven’t been in any wars. I haven’t faced the enemy on the battlefield. But this I know, therefore, and , and , everything else is secondary. There is no fight between the and the government. There is a fight between the Jewish people that some people, I’m sure peace-loving people, thought well, this is the decision to be made. Either a world war or throw Czechoslovakia to Hitler. And I happened to be in London when Chamberlain came back from Munich. I’m convinced that Chamberlain wanted peace. And he weighed little Czechoslovakia, sorry for them. There’s no reason why they should be sacrificed. But, instead of this, the whole world at war, therefore out goes Czechoslovakia to Hitler. Israel will refuse with all its strength, and it has more strength than many people believe. Not to accept the fate of Czechoslovakia. There’s nobody else in the world that wants peace more than we do. We refuse absolutely to be sacrificed for peace, this time it isn’t even peace. It is to be, we are to be sacrificed for oil. We are to be sacrificed for billions and billions of dollars in the hands of a handful of people. We want everybody to be warm in winter. We want everybody to be happy in the world. We want everybody to have a high standard of living. All the good in the world, from the depth of our heart to everybody in the world. Unconditional, that we are here, we are also part of the world. This our enemies must know and this the best of our friends must know.

  • Can we hold it there please, Hannah?

  • And I’m not speaking for government.

  • Thank you. I wanted to show this because this is the real Golda. I’m going to come onto the Helen Mirren movie in a moment. It is so articulate. It is so clear. It is so believable and strong without being arrogant or full of excessive pride. But it is so clear and articulating such a strong, simple sense of Jewish identity, the meaning of survival in a contemporary context, whether it’s in her time that she gave the speech or much later in our time. You know, it reminds the essence of what this whole thing is about. The state of Israel, the Jewish sense of Jewish identity, culture and history. And I’ve seldom seen such a, if you like, without political jargon, language, but a clarity of thought which gets the whole picture. And not trying to score little points here or there, but cuts to the essence. And that’s what I mean. We get the person. Not only the iconic persona of Golda, we feel this inside her. We don’t feel we are being played like a classic politician would do. We get the sense this as a real person here. And I think that’s she always tried to do with others as well. To see that, as I said earlier, the person and the public persona. Okay, I want to show the trailer from the Helen Mirren film, if we can show that please, next clip.

  • [Announcer] Four, three, two, one.

  • Today, the Egyptian and Syrian army has launched an offensive against Israel. Our enemies hope to surprise the citizens of Israel on Yom Kippur.

  • Our troops are out numbered seven to one.

  • If the Arabs reach Tel Aviv, Israel will be wiped off the map. In my day, they stood for the prime Minister.

  • Secretary, Kissinger is on the line.

  • Remember that I am first an American, second I’m Secretary of State. And third, I am a Jew.

  • We forget that in Israel, we read from right to left.

  • [Unseen Man] The American people will pay a high price for supporting Israel.

  • If we have to, we will fight alone.

  • [Military Official] Our troops in the canal, they’re surrounded.

  • You rescue these boys.

  • [Unseen Man] Mildly to catastrophe.

  • If the Americans throw us to the dogs, I will not be taken alive.

  • Egyptians have fired the cruise missile in Tel Aviv.

  • Well, I’m not going to get under the table, but don’t let me stop you. ♪ Or by fire ♪ If the Egyptians defeat us with Soviet weapons, what message does that send to the free world? ♪ Or by water ♪

  • [Military Official] The Russians, they’re preparing 11 airborne divisions.

  • When I was a child in Ukraine, they would beat Jews to death in the street for fun. I’m not that little girl hiding in the cellar. ♪ Or by brave ascent ♪ ♪ Or by accident ♪

  • [Unseen Man] Do you know how many people died?

  • All those boys. I will carry that pain into my grave. ♪ All by his lady’s command ♪ We will keep fighting for a guarantee of life and peace. ♪ Well ♪ ♪ Shall I say ♪ ♪ ♪

  • Thanks, if we can hold it. If we can put the next clip on and freeze the image, please. Thanks, Hannah. We can just hold it there. So that’s the trailer. And what I really like about, I mean, Helen Mirren I think gave such a masterful performance. It’s quite extraordinary. She captures what I’m calling, you know, the inner life of the character so much. Caught up in these, and the stakes are so huge in these historical times. It of course set around the time of the war, the Yom Kippur War. But it’s actually, there are two time zones in the movie. The one is that where she’s appearing before the commission and then, which is of course 1974 after the war, where they determined whether she’s to blame or not, or scapegoat or not, or what really happened, why it happened. They were taken, Israel was taken so unaware. And then all flashbacks. And these are all flashbacks that we see. And I think Helen Mirren does capture so much of the enormity of the inner conflict and the magnitude. How Golda gets the magnitude of what she’s involved in on a personal minute day-to-day level, and then on the broad historical span of the Jewish history level as well. And inside that again, is the sense of identity that I just read to you earlier. You know, she’s always aware of this huge context that she is leading it. Okay. In essence, the film is around this time. And the , what we get from the film is that gets the intelligence. That Egypt and Syria are preparing to attack. And Golda is told as Prime minister, but she dismisses this and says she needs the support of her defence minister Dayan.

And Dayan, and that the Egyptians are massing, you know, opposite the Suez Canal and the war might begin, et cetera. But the key was this idea of the preemptive move, which she’s persuaded by thinking of the influence, what will change with American politics, that America might not support them anymore if it’s preemptive. And Dayan, who is saying, it’s unlikely that there’s going to be an attack. What the intelligence is saying to her, there is going to be an attack. So we have to imagine ourselves and we get a lot of images in the cabinet of all the different, not only the individuals, but in different perspectives at a time of enormous crisis. Not so dissimilar to the film “Darkest Hour”, you know, when Churchill takes over in May, 1945. All the different perspectives of cabinet. What to do, when to do, how to do, you know what, because the stakes couldn’t be higher. So what is the decision and how is it made? And I think it’s really well captured in the writing and in the acting, and especially through her character. And we get what the Kissinger character, I think superbly portrayed by Liev Schreiber and how he presents it, you know, in those three things, that comment. “First I’m an American, first I’m secretary of state, second I’m American, thirdly, I’m a Jew.” You know, and she flips it immediately well. “We write from, in Hebrew from the right to left.” Always with that wit, that charm. She gets it. You know, she’s appealing to something fundamentally Jewish inside Kissinger in the writing of that script. Okay. The next slide is a clip from, another clip, which we’ll see during the war from the film. If we can show please.

  • .

  • At 10:00 AM we began mobilising 120,000 troops, including two armoured brigades. Few minutes ago the Syrians began removing the camouflage netting from the guns. The canal, the Egyptians are cutting channels through their sand barrier in preparation for crossing.

  • When will the attack start?

  • Towards sundown, this is our best information. It seems likely that we’ve been surprised.

  • So how the hell did this happen, huh? We gave you 100 million dollars for your damned eavesdropping system and you promised us 72 hours notice in case of an attack.

  • This is not a court of inquiry. And watch your language, please.

  • Four hours early.

  • The Egyptians are shelling across the canal. Syrian jets are bombing. Egyptians have fired the cruise missile in Tel Aviv.

  • No.

  • No.

  • I’m not going to get under the table, but don’t let me stop you.

  • Hm. If we can just begin with the next clip. Thanks, and we just hold it there. So in that clip, I just want to show a little moment of, you know, the recriminations, but she stops it. You know, there’s time to deal with that later or another time. You know, the immediate thing is, you know, whoever’s to blame, whatever’s happened, got to deal with the reality. And in the film it’s shown how quick she moves to that decision and stops the blaming and the attacking. It’s also shown how Dayan has a virtual nervous breakdown. And she pull, in the film. And she pulls Dayan aside, the great hero of '67, the iconic military hero of Israel historically in modern times. And she pulls him aside and says, “Look, you’ve got to basically get your act together, Dayan, you know. We need you, we need you not only as a figure, but the reality. Get out there, go to the Golan Heights, go to, go to.” She’s the one to put him out of his nervous breakdown and push him on. She realises she’s got to hold not only the country, but the leaders. She’s got to remind them that they can be lions leading. You know, because she sees Dayan within a day collapses virtually, and others as well. And it could easily descend into recriminations, political point scoring, A against B, against C, against D. She’s got to hold all of that together from leadership to the actual, the nation as well. And she rises to that occasion as only a statesmen or stateswoman could really do. She was told that the political, that the military intelligence, what you saw, they had neglected to properly monitor signals from the Egyptians. You know, what was coming in and all the stuff on, they had ignored. They’d spent so much money on electronic and many other, you know, types of things, but had ignored what was being seen with eyes at the front. And these things were, the reports were coming in. So, I’ve ignored, this is a very short clip where she’s shown going out with her personal secretary during an attack. We can show it, please. In the film.

  • Golda, are you right? Breathe, Golda. Please breathe. Do you want to drink something?

  • The enemy has tasted blood. There is no reason for them to stop now. This is 1948 again. We are fighting for our lives. If the Americans throw us to the dogs and the Arabs reach Tel Aviv, I will not be taken alive. And you are to make sure of that.

  • Okay, thanks. If we can show the beginning of the next clip. Thanks, we can hold it there. Thanks Hannah. So, I wanted to show that because I think so much of this, part of it comes from actual transcripts and from her autobiography. This scene here, is one of my favourite scenes in the whole film. I think it’s remarkable. Liev Schreiber does a fantastic performance of Kissinger. Subtle. And Helen Mirren as Golda, and the chemistry between them is extraordinary. And the intelligence coming from Golda, and the ironic Jewish wit. Okay, he’s just arrived during the war and he’s come to see her in her home. We can show it, please.

  • Thank you for coming, Henry.

  • Of course.

  • Are you hungry?

  • No, thank you.

  • My housekeeper, Leah, made some borscht.

  • No, no, please. The Russians gave me two huge dinners last night. One after the other. To be honest, I’m feeling a bit uncomfortable.

  • Ah, those Russians is all about strategy. Come sit.

  • You know, they jammed the communication equipment on my plane.

  • Hmm, of course. Those Russians, they brought nothing but misery to the world.

  • Normally, I would agree with you. Of course there is .

  • Mm, and . Misery on every page.

  • No please, thank you.

  • You have to eat it, Henry, she’s a survivor.

  • Ah.

  • Enjoy.

  • Mm. Mm, that’s very good, thank you.

  • Thank you Leah.

  • Thanks Hannah. If we can go straight onto the next clip, please, which continues the scene.

  • has already agreed to the terms of the ceasefire.

  • Of course he has, he’s on the brink of defeat. It will give him a chance to regroup. You are the only person in the world who could possibly understand what I’m going through.

  • Yes, I know how you feel but, we need a ceasefire.

  • I thought we were friends, Henry.

  • We will always protect Israel.

  • Like you did in '48? We had to get our weapons from Stalin. Stalin. Our survival is not in your gift. If we have to, we will fight alone.

  • I’m, stopping in London for a few hours on the way home. I should arrive in Washington around 9:00 AM in the morning, tomorrow your time. At which time I will have to announce the ceasefire. That will give you 18 hours to secure your supply line. But I warn you, Golda, any attempt to encircle the third army will bring the Soviets into the conflict, you understand?

  • I understand.

  • On that basis, does Israel agree to the cease fire?

  • I have 18 hours. Then, yes.

  • I’ve just got the news that Ben has got the to Cairo road. The Egyptian third army is completely surrounded.

  • Secretary, Kissinger is on the line.

  • You got by Sadat by the throat, Golda.

  • Mr. Secretary.

  • You want to open a humanitarian corridor to the third army, Golda. We cannot allow 30,000 men to die of thirst.

  • We’ll send them water when we’ve got our prisoners back.

  • [Henry] I will try to arrange them.

  • And Sadat agrees to direct talks with Israel, not the Zionist entity, Israel.

  • That would be tenement to recognition.

  • Yes.

  • He will never agree to that. They would turn against him.

  • If he doesn’t, I will order my planes to attack. All those men will die. All of them.

  • The destruction of the third army, also that from power, he’d be hanged into square.

  • Well, that thought should focus his mind.

  • [Henry] And it would be replaced by a Soviet hardliner. You know this as well as I do.

  • You mean a mad man bent on the destruction of Israel?

  • The Russians are on high alert. They’re preparing 11 airborne divisions, do you understand?

  • Do you think I don’t know that? Let me tell you about the Russians, Henry. When I was a child in Ukraine at Christmas time, my father would board up the windows of our house–

  • Golda.

  • To protect us from cossacks who would get drunk and attack Jews. They would beat Jews to death in the street for fun. My father would hide us in the cellar and we’d stay silent hoping the killers would pass us by. My father’s face, Henry, I will never forget that look. All he wanted was to protect his children. I’m not that little girl hiding in the cellar.

  • So now you’re going to fight with the Russians too, huh?

  • You must choose, Henry. Side with me, or I will create an army of orphans and widows.

  • This is not the way to–

  • I will slaughter them all. Whose side are you on? You must choose.

  • Golda.

  • Please think about it. Goodbye, Mr. Secretary. Yes?

  • Can you hear me?

  • Yes Dado, speak up.

  • [Dado] I have a message from Sadat. He is offering direct talks and an exchange of POWs. He’s given the Red Cross a list of names. He referred to you as the Prime Minister of Israel, Golda.

  • He used that word, Israel?

  • [Dado] Yes, Israel. He’s recognising Israel.

  • Tell General that we welcome President Sadat’s kind words.

  • If you can just freeze that there, please, Hannah. This for me is one of the most powerful scenes, the most powerful scene in the film. The whole scene from the borscht, where we get, you know, she’s the archetypal grandmother figure and he’s almost like the little Jewish boy from around the corner. And she insists, you’ll have your borscht, you’ll have your, no matter what. And the survivor comes in, no need to explain it. He isn’t just Jewish, he gets it immediately. Then his comeback. Well, you know, I’m a foreign secretary, secretary of state, I’m American, and thirdly, I’m Jewish. She gets that straight to the chase in the script and in the writing and in the acting. Ah, you’re Jewish first, I’m going to remind you. And then later you’re going to have to choose, et cetera. And then comes, you know, the political debate between the two of them. And then comes the sheer toughness and the determination. And knowing how far she can push out, how far she can push back with Kissinger and with Sadat. You know, and in these times of such enormous stakes. We get a sense, and for me, I think it’s a brilliant portrayal by Helen Mirren and Liev Schreiber in that very short, it’s a small role in the movie, but it’s so important as Kissinger. And I think we get a sense of what it is to be a leader, what it is to be a stateswoman, what it is to be a woman in these times, and how really tough this kind, caring grandmother who will offer borscht really actually is deep inside everything.

But she’s also able to be kind and humble as a grandmother. It’s a complex portrayal of that inner life of this individual. Of course, it’s taking from history, it’s trying to capture it in a short, you know, couple of minutes in a few scenes in a movie. But that’s what great art does. That’s what great storytelling of literature and art do. They take the essence, give an interpretation, and then allow us to re-experience through our imagination something of history and get a picture in our mind again. Storytelling. The beautiful magic of storytelling. And that’s what I get here. And I get, Helen Mirren completely for me, understands it. Every gesture of her body, her look, her glance, it’s all inside. She’s done the work, that’s for sure. And she shows that she’s really in charge and leading as well, let’s never forget. And refusing to allow bickering and pettiness of this or that to ever happen, or to go on around the cabinet tables. It may be seen as a romantic, an idealistic portrayal of Golda. It may be seen as over, as even sentimental, you know, that she’s in such a good light or just because she’s a very good actress. But I think there’s something deeper. And that’s why I come back to what I said at the beginning. People call her Golda. Not just by her surname, you know, as with many other political leaders. There’s a spark here, there’s a warmth.

The borscht scene I think will go down as one of the, it’s ironic, it’s funny, it’s almost Woody Allen-esk in the moments of such great, you know, geopolitical stakes. We see the kindness towards the employees in some of the other scenes in the film. These are basically about the 19 days of the Yom Kippur war in '73. And as I said, begins and ends with her at the 1979 commission. Which was to see whether she should be apportioned blame or not. Again, to quote them, they decided no direct responsibility, but she resigns. Why? Because military intelligence had failed to listen to their own listeners. Military intelligence had failed to listen to the electronic messages coming in and to the human messages coming in. But instead of letting Egypt and the other Arab countries know that Israel had all of these listening devices and individuals everywhere, she chooses to resign. That’s the portrayal in the film. That’s the real reason given why she resigns. She will not give up that crucial information just to protect her own status as prime minister and carry on for the next however many years as prime Minister. It’s more important to put the state of Israel first and what she will do for it, as opposed to her own legacy as a blamed prime minister for a failure of listening to the military intelligence for the '73 Yom Kippur War. And these choices are of Shakespearean magnitude. Shown, I think superbly in this whole film as well. So I want you to just, you know, pull the whole thing together. But if you haven’t had a chance, I just really recommend because this film has been attacked partly, is it too much of a war adventure movie? Is it too much of cabinet meetings and full of smoke and the prosthetics on Helen Mirren’s face and body?

There are haunting images of dead bodies, you know, in the hospitals, we see her in her imagination walking through the dead bodies of the dead soldiers. You know, and she constantly wants to know how many soldiers are dying, how many have been killed. She’s so concerned about the actual boys on the front being killed. So it shows that side, it shows a humble side with her with some of her employees. The ability to be as strong as iron with whoever, Kissinger or others, whatever. Also shows this grandmother. So all these aspects, they try to show in this one event of this just, you know, two and a half, three week war and how she’s dealing with all these people around. Again, not only do I think Helen Mirren rises to the occasion brilliantly, but we get an image of what a real leader was and what another real leader anywhere in the world, I’m not talking about Israel now, I don’t want to get into politics at all, but what a real leader anywhere in the world really could be. And when they’re able to distinguish between minor and major, bickering in politics and the big picture, be decisive, wrong or right, make a massive mistake, and then what to do about it. When their own minister of defence, who so iconically heroic, Dayan, is having a virtual breakdown, pull him out and that’s his only scene in the film, pull him out and say, get to the Golan Heights. They’ve got to see you there. You are needed. Not only for your military expertise, but because you are the iconic image of leadership in the military context. Sharon, she’s seen with the young Sharon. He says, look, “I will cross the Suez Canal, cut off the Egyptian third army.” She says to Sharon, “Well, one day you’ll be the great leader. But remember, every political leader ends up as a failure.”

You know, we see the young, we see all these characters portrayed in small roles. Subservient to the central role of Golda. And I know it’s, again, it could be accused of being romantic and idealised or idealistic or even sentimental. You know, in the portrayal of the mother figure, the archetype grandmother, mother figure. But I, so of course it’s going to appeal to us in that way. But I think that it does capture something of that, which whether she was aware of or not, but it’s something that is so deep and profound in her, and I think it’s there from a young age. And this story of the father in the cellar, in Kiev. And you know, cowering before the cossacks are going to come and kill the Jews in another pogrom. It’s haunting, and it goes back again and again. That scene for me is one of the most powerful I’ve seen in many films about, which have central, Jewish characters as pretty central. Okay, so I wanted to get the sense of Golda through film. Knowing through this one movie in particular, as one portrayal. There are going to be many others I’m sure, and welcome them. There was another one I was going to show, but we don’t have the time. From the “Sword of Gideon”, where she gets these young guys and says, after the Munich massacre of 1972, the Munich Olympics, and she says to them, “You will go out and do it no matter what.” It’s a similar speech to the one that she said right at the beginning that I showed, you know, that it’s on you now.

You know, that we have this new state, et cetera. To inspire this new generation, remind them the history they come from and the role they have to play, and they can and will play. So but that’s a different portrayal in the “Sword of Gideon”. Which is a fascinating movie, but this I think far surpasses it in my personal opinion. Okay so I share this with you, coming back to the big picture of how do we take great historical icons, put them up against the broad vast canvas of an historical era, and how do we capture through storytelling, through art, through film, through theatre, novels? How do we capture something years later that can speak to us down through the ages? And that for me is the magic of film, theatre, and art. You know, it can, and it does, and it captures it through the stories always. I’m getting passionate and I love it because I really, I adore Helen Mirren as an actress and the portrayal is superb. And I think the film is just so well written also. Okay. We’ll go straight into questions, thank you.

Q&A and Comments:

Barry, “I wonder what Golda would’ve thought of Biden.” Well, we can, you know, I’m sure we’ve all watched these things recently and yeah. That’s another whole conversation perhaps. I know I sound like I’m sitting on the fence, but it really is for another conversation, Barry.

Rita, “Wonder what she would’ve thought of Trump.” You know, anybody you know in the world for that matter.

And Rita’s given a lovely link here for Barry. That’s great, thanks Rita. This is fantastic about lockdown, what Wendy has created and with Trudy and others, you know, it is such a community.

And I just want to mention that I got an amazing email from David, who, based on last week, talking about last week, when I was talking about the Generals and Dayan. And Dayan going to 19 to, in the mid '60s, '66, going to Vietnam. And he was in a hospital, and David as a young Jewish doctor, was there in the hospital and meets him. Dayan goes through, and it’s through lockdown. The community that has been created by Wendy and everybody else. That is extraordinary that we can have these kinds of connections and stories being told and being revealed for all of us to be grateful for.

Q: Then onto Jean, “Regarding calling her Golda, how much do you think it’s due to her being just a woman? and Rabin always called by their surnames.”

A: Yeah. I think it’s more than that. I mean, Thatcher is called Thatcher, she’s not called Margaret. And I’m not getting into the pros and cons or the political debates around that, but there are many others. You know. So I do think that there’s some deeper intimate, maybe I’m being over speculative here, but a psychological meaning inside it.

David, again. David, so David Garfield, thank you again for sharing your story about Vietnam. This extraordinary community that Wendy and Trudy have created.

Q: “Did they take the 100,000 Jews?”

A: That’s what they said at Evian. Yeah. Thanks David, and for sharing that story again about Vietnam.

Sandra, our auntie Fanny was Golda’s best friend. Fanny lived in Washington. When Golda came to the US first she visited with Fanny and when Fanny went to Israel, Golda’s personal driver picked her up and drove her where she needed to go. But first they had their traditional tea and cookies. Relationship that lasted from girlhood and their dad’s grocery stores. That’s extraordinary, Sandra.

Thank you very much for sharing that again. Again, it’s this community that Wendy and Trudy and others have created, which is amazing resource of remarkable human stories. Monica, thank you. Sheila, thanks for your kind comments.

“America was the first country to recognise Israel de facto, later the USSR.” Yes. Absolutely.

Sheila, “The Dominican Republic offered places to farmers. I don’t think Jewish refugees actually got there, we can check that out with Ricky and Rita, and Sheila.” That’s great, thanks so much for that.

Rose, “Thinking of the Yom Kippur war was a war we all remembered sadness. If you’re all prepared for, but for me October the seventh, unpreparedness leading to the continuing fighting till today is worse.” Yeah, I’m not going to go into the debate, you know, which is worse, better or worse. They’re both tragedies. It’s always around that early October period. It’s always, well not always, but often. But I’m not going to get into a mystical debate of celestial forces.

Denise, finally I mean, ah okay. I kept getting voice, and okay that’s great. Thank you. Thank you, that’s very kind comments.

Okay Monty, “The South African soprano, Golda Schultz is named after Golda Meir. Her mother chose Golda because Golda Meir was a strong name to live up to. A woman who stood up in the line of fire for her country.” That’s great, Denise and Monty, thank you.

Carol. Carol, just here. “Amazing perception, thank you. We need to hear again and again.” I think we do. I think we need to reimagine and revisit the stories of individuals from the past. Not for the cliche that history repeats itself and so on, but what we understand of the insights from the past and the wisdom.

Carol, “There was a problem that there was a call up sometime before in one considerations. I lost my brother in the Yom Kippur war.” I’m so sorry to hear that, Carol. So, so sorry. And just thank you for sharing that on lockdown.

“Nothing changes, all the problems apply.” Thelma. Well, we see the echoes of many things. I don’t think it’s exactly the same, Mark Twain’s phrase. “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.” It does rhyme in a certain way, but there are certain things which do echo again. You know, but the nuances are important as well.

Denise, “'If only the Arabs hated war as much as we love our children,’ that was one of her great phrases.” Exactly as you’re saying, Denise, “We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children, we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.” Yeah, one of her great quotes, Rita. And thanks for reminding us. And thanks, Denise.

Kissinger, ha. Denise, thank you, all kind comments. Thank you. Thank you, Miriam.

Carol, “Bet you we don’t have this kind today.” Well in many parts of the world.

“I’ve just made borscht yesterday,” Denise says. When in doubt, bring out the borscht. What can we say? What would this movie be without that scene? And brilliant that they put it into the film. I think it’s so central. Captures so many of these themes that I’m talking about.

Denise, “I believe exactly as did Golda. I think I’m mad, I just see it in a different perspective.” That’s great, Denise, enjoy your borscht.

Sarah, “Maybe the current PM should see this.” I think a lot of leaders should see this clip in the film. And the clip in “Darkest Hours” of Churchill, a couple of, anyway. Okay. Thank you, Rita. Thank you, many kind comments here. Esther, thank you. Dominican Republic again.

Mavis, oh thank you, that’s very kind. And yes, you can find the the film Golda on YouTube, definitely. On the internet if not YouTube, it depends which country I think.

Sarah, “Golda once offered me a lift in a helicopter to Jerusalem after the cornerstone laying of the hospital that was named for my grandmother.” That’s extraordinary, Sarah. “Which she offered because I was very pregnant, but I didn’t accept using the excuse that I would keep my husband company on the drive. But in fact I was scared of flying in a helicopter.” That’s extraordinary, Sarah. Again, it’s this community that Wendy speaks of and I think it’s the absolute apt word. Thank you, on lockdown.

Linda, “My husband was in the spearhead of the tank divisions in the Golan. He survived two tank explosions. The movie showed me so much of what we didn’t know previously.” Oh Linda, that’s so powerful to share, thank you. “His unit was the Barak unit, and now I understand that he had PTSD.” Thank you so much for sharing, Linda. It’s profound, important. I want to thank you, very kind. Thatcher did show, yep, her human side with her umbrella, her bag, et cetera. Absolutely. I was only using Thatcher as in terms of the first name and surname. As an interesting minor thought.

Aubrey, “The reason the Dominican Republic accepted Jews was because they threw out the Haitians after a massacre, they needed farmers.” Yep. And of course urban Jews didn’t know much about farming, as you say, Aubrey. Exactly. And very few actually went.

Julian, thanks for that. Julian, “Two interesting parallels. The actions of Golda were to put country before personal interest, whereas here in the UK and elsewhere is speech, but not actions of or to put country before power.” Yeah, it’s this whole debate, honestly always. Country, personal, and how we locate power inside the person that we give the power to. You know, which is as ancient as the Greeks and Shakespeare and goes all the way through historicals and artistic stories.

Aubrey, “Read the ‘The Farming of Bones’ about the massacre of the Haitians in the Dominican Republic.” That’s really helpful, thanks Aubrey.

Ronald, “I’d recommend The One Woman Play.” Yes, there’s the one woman play “Golda’s Balcony”. And it is available in Amazon Prime. Thanks Ronald. Yeah, for anybody who’s interested, it’s a complimentary play. A play, anyway. A one woman play, which perhaps can be seen together with this 2023 movie with Helen Mirren.

Okay, well I want to thank everybody so much and it’s been great to share this with you. For me, this remarkable and unique woman of our times and the 20th century, such a great icon and to the film the storytelling about her. Thanks so much everyone, have a great rest of the weekend. Thanks so much, Hannah. Cheers.